South Berwick Ballot Item Results June 10, 2008
Here are the results of today’s votes
Registered Voters: 4764
Total ballots cast: 1335 28%
SAD 35 Budget Validation Referendum Passed
Shall MSAD35 accept the budget that was adopted at the Budget Meeting on June 5, 2008?
Yes 740 | No 581
South Berwick Charter Amendment Failed
Shall South Berwick amend its Charter to provide for the recall and removal from office of elected municipal officials?
Yes 498 | No 833
Maine state primary and referendum results to follow.
Tags: election, so. berwick government
June 10th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Well, so much for that. Hope everyone that voted for that overblown, bloated school budget is happy.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
I think the School budget was just about right. Efficient; responsible. Also received majority vote of thoughtful voters.
June 10th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Bill,
I hope you are as happy come mid-winter. I sincerely do.
June 11th, 2008 at 12:55 am
It is surprising, disappointing, and hard to understand why during these tumultuous times, the administration of our schools didn’t make a small, token gesture and cancel those laptops.
With children of my own in our schools, I am in favor of maintaining high standards and voted in support of the budget. I voted this way under duress, as I was not at all impressed with how the lap top situation was handled.
The way I see it, SAD 35 squandered an opportunity to do the right thing. Publicly canceling or postponing those laptops would have been a good lesson in civic responsibility and a politically savvy maneuver on behalf of the School Board. Too bad the opportunity was lost; it would have increased support for our school system, rather than weaken it.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:47 am
Key word: “Token”. Not substantial in any way.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:12 am
Agreed.
And well said Bill Page. Last Thursday when we were outvoted over the van issue, I knew trying to cut a little of the budget was out of the question. The laptops and van are issues that the board could have let go. Instead, they fiercly defended them. This was a chance for them to at least appear like they were willing to give in a bit. Just a bit. The expense is not the issue. The opportunity to at least be willing to show some (however little) compromise would have made them look a lot better IMO.
I hope that things go differently next year. I would like to think that there was somewhat of a message sent over this. I got the impression that some of the folks on the board were actually a little angry that they were questioned on some of these things. One in particular who did a lot of the talking.
Oh well. Hopefully this will not hurt those of us who live paycheck to paycheck as much as I’m fearing. I guess I will know for sure soon enough.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:07 am
I suspect these individuals are going to end up paying very, very dearly for the laptops and the van as the economy grinds lower and lower over the coming year.
When heating oil is over $5 this fall and we have some neighbors facing paying for heating or eating, when the school needs some emergency funding due to the oil situation, those laptops and van are going to look pretty bad.
I don’t think this group will be re-elected or that the school budget will pass without several revisions next year. This might have been their “let them eat cake” moment.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:17 am
I was not too keen on the laptops either, but I was not about to vote down the entire budget based on that one piece. Returning to the drawing board on this process, and requiring the district to operate on a “supplemental” budget based on the current budget would be a travisty.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:21 am
When faced with a 10.3% increase in local spending, the school board saw fit to provide raises for virtually all of the administration team.
A new hire solely for coaching field hockey, as well as a vacant assistant principle position left in the budget.
Laptops for the board members, a van for the facilities manager.
$225,000 for repairing the Eliot school libary roof could have come out of the 1.2 million dollar contingency fund instead of being added to the budget.
Stating that they don’t want to use that money because some of the people who contributed are no longer residants, so if wouldn’t be fair?
They aren’t going to return that money, nor are they going to ask permission to use it when they decide to.
Raising the cost per student required by the parents for athletic and class filed trips would not have been out of the question either.
What was asked of the school board was that they consider the rising costs of food, fuel, home heating oil, etc… when going through the budget.
The reduction in state funds was beyond their control, but there are many things that could have been done to mitigate the drastic increase.
Asking them to use 1/6th of their contingency fund to offset some of these costs is also not out of line.
What it seems like we got was an in your face, we’re going to pass this on to you no matter how many people feel about the increase, answer.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Don’t worry, Dave. This won’t happen next year. What’s happening in the economy guarantees it. They made a very big mistake with this. A very big mistake.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:30 am
But Sally,
I wonder if you are right. I hope you are! BUT, one thing that made me a little uncomfortable at that budget meeting last week was that it seemed that whenever some person got up and said something dramatic like “I feel this is the best investment we can give”, or “I will work two jobs to support this school”, and other similar comments, there was applause. I didn’t hear a lot of applause after most of the folks who were questioning the budget. I did a few times!
Now I agree that when the tax bills come out to the people of SB, there will be many unhappy people. I’ll be there will be some who supported the school budget, who will regret doing so. And others who did not vote at all that wished they had.
But even if the majority of SB folks are eager to trim the budget next year, don’t the Eliot voters also have a say?
There was a very well spoken young woman in a purple shirt who asked a lot of intelligent questions. And yes, I got a very “Let Them Eat Cake” attitude from them when she asked “How could we cut 2% of the overall budget”? To me, they reacted like a bunch of King Louis & Maries!
Over 2%! We somehow need to get together and show the community that we are not “anti education”, we just want a little show of support from the school budget. It almost seems like it’s a business. And we are not ignorant people for wanting them to make a few cuts, we just want to pay for our own heat, food and rent too!
Believe it or not there are some people who are very worried about how to stay above water. I am one. I can’t believe there are not a few others. Now is not the year to be so strongly defending things like laptops for the board, and a company van. My van has 185,000 miles on it, and thankfully runs just fine for now. I take it to work everyday like most people. I think the board looked really callous and like you said “you will accept this budget AS IS and like it”. “You should have come to our workshops to see how we toiled over this”.
I REALLY hope we can stop this from happening next year, but people need to stand with us. If not, I for one am in trouble.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Doing back of the envelop analysis, for every one percent the property taxes increase in this town, one family will lose their home, using current statistics on mortgage, average property values and the average town salary.
So we have pretty much guaranteed that 15 families more or less are going under now. As the situation worsens as we move thru the year, and start paying those heating oil bills over $5.5 per gallon, it will get worse.
They are going to be lucky if the towns people leave their pitchforks at home next year.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:02 am
I don’t understand your math. Can you explain further how 1% of property tax increase translates in to someone losing their home? I’m not being flippant; I really don’t understand. For my family a 1% rise in property taxes would add $28 to my tax bill.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Nope, I don’t see it. Too many people feel that ‘the school is our future’, ‘it is for the good of the community’, ‘we all have to stand together and support our teachers’. I don’t see a majority ever voting against a school budget. Too much propoganda for too long.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Molly, cumulative effect now. 1% yes, won’t have much impact, but you go over 10%, and real trouble start. Keep in mind, most people not only have no savings, they are fighting mounting credit card bills too, and prices overall are rising. I should have put in more info, its over 10%, every 1% over 10%. But, that doesn’t put in anything whatsoever about prices of heating oil, gas and food rising from here, which they will. So, I think as we move forward thru the year, that 10% will fall lower….eg, for every 1% over 9%, etc.
What there seems to be is a complete ignorance of the average family’s situation which — just by the fingernails, making the bills each month. While it is true that $300 bucks increase in property taxes isn’t much money, it is when you are already behind or barely hanging on. Couple that with the heating oil situation, and these guys have cooked up a recipe for disaster.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Would have been great to see a $300 reduction. But It will never happen with the mind set of some!
June 11th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Here’s the calculation:
The average household income in this town is $52K. The average family size is 3.6 persons, so let’s say 4 people, which means when all is said and done on income taxes, that leaves a spendable income of about 42K. The average home price is more or less around $300K given the rise of the past couple of years. (Remember some of the new homes and pricier areas dragged averages higher.)
So, here are two scenarios: the family who did everything by the book for the past couple of years, and the person who “took advantage” of the easy credit available:
a) Has 30 year fixed mortgage at slightly over 6%. Has average credit card debt — $8K. Has health insurance. Monthly Take home — 3500
Mortgage –1458
Health Insurance 700
Gas (2 cars - 4 fillups each) 560
Heating oil (1400 gallons per year) 525
Credit Interest (at 11% interest only) 100
Total 3343
Left for food & other costs including taxes: 157
B) Has three year ARM mortgage, teaser rate that will move up in September to 10% (and this is a “good ARM” adjustment some will go as high as 13%). Did not put 20% down like family A, but rather just 10% so has 270K mortgage rather than 240K like family A. Has average credit card debt — $8K. NO health insurance. Monthly Take home — 3500
Mortgage –2369
Gas (2 cars - 4 fillups each) 560
Heating oil (1400 gallons per year) 525
Credit Interest (at 11% interest only) 100
In the hole by $54 dollars before food, medical, clothing, and real estate taxes. Now playing credit card roulette, borrowing from one to pay the other. And taking on second job.
Like I said, could be pitchforks coming out this time next year.
June 11th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
LJ,
Either that or people are not acting on “propoganda”, understand exactly what they are voting on, and just disagree with you.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
If I were the only one who voted against it I’d definitely agree with you, but did you know, there were many votes against it, not just mine? The scare tactics used are old and overused, but still do the trick, don’t you think? Frighten the voters into believing their children will end up with substandard education if the school board doesn’t have brand-new laptops, or if some employee drives a van at the publics’ expense. Your children’s education will suffer, how?
June 11th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
One thing that’s being overlooked is the town’s pro-active and innovative “Tax Club” which gives taxpayers the choice to budget their taxes over an eight month period. This is an extremely important option for residents that are financially strapped in the current economic environment.
The town has no say over the price of oil… but they at least have given us a creative way to lessen the immediate burden of taxation.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I agree with LJ. I’ve been to the meetings and the workshops. There were valid points brought up and cuts that could have been made that would NOT have effected the teachers or the students. Laptops, Vans and an extra assistant principal to name a few. If these leaders are so great, which we heard all about at the meeting… they could lead with what they have.. they shouldn’t need another assistant. No matter how much it amounts to in the overall budget.. it was the right thing to do.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
AC,
The tax club is great for people who don’t already have their taxes included in their mortgage payment. It helps spread the cost through out the year.
After our mortgage is payed off, we’ll probably do the same.
Right now, little as it may be, the escrow account pays interest.
In both cases, people are looking at coming up with an additional $50 to $100 or more a month to cover the increased taxes.
Some people do not have the extra $50 to add in without cutting some necessities. Come this winter, they’ll be faced with harder choices.
Some people may have to go out to eat a little less. and some people it won’t affect very much at all.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Dave, I think you’re looking at this thru the prism of your own situation. There are people now literally hanging by their fingernails due to the price of gas. Keep in mind that it is almost double what it was two years ago. Now, if you’re living paycheck to paycheck — which most people today are — the extra $100 a month you’re shelling out now for gas is hurting, and its doesn’t just mean you don’t go out to dinner as much. People aren’t dumb, they realize this means heating oil is going to the moon this winter.
If we had a more financially sophisticated town council, they would have kept their budget to last year’s levels. And, the school board, well, if we had a more ethical, more responsible group then, they too would have taken only the increases that couldn’t have been avoided.
But, as I said, I suspect this time next year both these groups will end up paying very dearly for the laptops, the van and all the other extra. Because they failed to act responsibly this year, they are going to find themselves facing a population demanding truly draconian cuts next year.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I say it again. There were more votes for the school budget than against it. You write as thought people have been “duped”. I was not duped; I knew exactly what I was voting for. And I think most of the “aye” votes were not duped either. You may be disappointed, but please don’t suggest that voters do not know what they are doing. It’s kind of insulting; no…. it IS insulting.
June 11th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Those are excellent points, Dave. Those with taxes held in escrow are already having taxes budgeted monthly.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Sally, If you look at the first part of that, I stated the same thing you did.
“Some people do not have the extra $50 to add in without cutting some necessities. Come this winter, they’ll be faced with harder choices.”
That is not going to be the case for everyone, which is why I added the second and third parts because it will not affect everyone the same.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Sally- what are the numbers in your equation based upon?
And when does good judgement become a factor in this equation? I find it difficult to believe the average South Berwick resident is in such dire straits. (Though I recognize that some are because of circumstances beyond their control.)
A little common sense and fiscal responsibility goes a long way. No one is forcing people live outside their means… that’s an unfortunate trait of much of our society these days, however.
Whether taxes go up, down or stay the same the people in your model are still going to have financial issues…. property taxes aren’t the cause. I’m afraid the issues are much, much deeper than that.
In order to have a more fiscially sophisticated town council wouldn’t we need to pull from a pool of “fiscially sophisticated” citizens. Based on your general statements it seems that would be very difficult to do.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
I would never let my credit card debt get up to $8,000. That would be crazy. My cc debt is always less that $500. Self control.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
and I agree with AC — if there are problems, it’s not taxes. It’s more deep rooted than that. Easy to blame taxes; but if you end up arguing about laptops, that’s pretty lame.
June 11th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
I think that its a little too late now to start scolding people for their lack of fiscal discipline — which I agree, we should have seen a great deal more of over the past couple of years. And yes, $8K is stunning, but I help people, and I have seen combined card levels in this town that have been as high as, I hope you are sitting, 50K.
That said, this is where we are now. My point is, yes, these people have problems that lower taxes are not going to solve. But, our tax increase coming has the potential to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for many people. And foreclosures will be OUR problem as they will be a drain on the resources of the town. Don’t count on a superb level of maintenance from the foreclosure entity, doesn’t happen. Plus, each foreclosure lowers the property values of the surrounding properties.
The point is, we should — as much as it may kill some of the more financially responsible among us — we should not be trying now to make life more difficult for our fellow citizens. It is in our best interests to try and help. It really is. They aren’t going to get help from the bank, the credit card company, the oil company….so, as the equation stands, the people hurt by a default and foreclosure are first and foremost, the person, and his/her surrounding community.
June 11th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Fosters Today:
“Three teaching positions were cut as part of the budget: two district wide special education positions and one teaching spot at Marshwood Middle School. Bearden has said the special education cuts were made to reflect declining student enrollment in the program.”
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080611/GJNEWS_01/336145118/-1/FOSNEWS0310
These aren’t lap tops or vehicle perks. These are jobs, people with families, teachers.
If the school board made adjustments within their budgets, like freeze the 2nd assistant principal at the high school. One, two or maybe three of these jobs would still be here next year. Don’t you think there’s a reason he’s negotiating his raise after the budget passes? And where is that money going to come from? I hope we don’t lose another teaching position.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
One of the two Special Education positions that were cut directly effects the Autism program at Central Elementary and Great Works School. Although there aren’t as many Special Education students enrolled in the district as there were 2-3 years ago, there are actually more autistic students than there used to be. Those children’s needs will no longer be served at the same level of quality that they were before.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
What do you want to bet the special needs population still exceeds the field hockey population. but they hired a coach for that.
June 11th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
looks like sally is taking over for “kc”.great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 11th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Someone has to. Someone has to bring in a dose of reality.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Yeah, right
June 11th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Get a grip
June 11th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
I think it is pretty rude for people to compare other people on this board to KC. It is pretty rude to KC, and whatever you may think of him/her, they deserve as much respect and courtesy as the rest of us. Tim is not the first person to do it, and I think it is downright rude. I thought personal attacks were to be avoided.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Thank you ladyjane.
June 11th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
I’d like to know how mrspeel knows that the autism program will be directly affected. Are you privy to confidential information pertaining to the autistic population in our district? I would like to believe that the IEP’s are being followed as per state regulations.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Anonymous - It does not require breaching confidentiality to conclude that cutting the position of the autism teacher at the Central School and MGWS would likely directly affect the programming and implementation of any IEP for a student identified on the autism spectrum. Although the position is gone, the students are still here.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
why don’t we skip one day of gloom and doom! pick a subj of positive nature? bet you can’t make it happen. I have never seen so much negitive in one location. Lets all try and get a (*&)*(&)(*& grip. credit cards are your problem not ours if you can’t pay you taxes move up north where there are no services . If you like it here pay up. services we ALL wan’t and require are why it cost so much to live here. No tax base no reason to bi*&^. I belive some of you dream about what to Bit^& about the next day. If you dont want to loose your home live withen your means. If you can’t pay your taxes charge it on a chase credit card the rates have now gone down to about 21%
June 11th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
I am assuming that the next school board meeting is Wednesday, June 18th.
The agenda has yet to be posted. If you want answers post them here, copy to the school board so you can be placed on the agenda, and attend. Step out of your comfort zone, step forward, and ask the questions.
So with that being said, my question to the school board is when did we buy that Dodge Ram 2500? For what purpose was stated at the time for the expenditure? And how many miles are on this vehicle now? And why is it seen parked on Route 4 in Waterboro all the time? (This has been seen by residents from South Berwick and Eliot going to school or conducting business past Waterboro.)
June 11th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
I’d like to try a bit of a different tack in looking at our local government finance options.
One thing we can do is demand transparency in the expenditure of every line item. It sure looks like there are enough persons represented on this blog to form an ad hoc committee to follow exactly how the money is being spent throughout the year. In that way, perhaps we can offer real ideas on prioritization and encourage department heads to take up the challenge of ending the year with a modest surplus to carry over into the next budget.
Of course this takes time and more work by the citizens, but time is one capital asset we have to offer.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
GREAT QUESTION Cat bet you get the answer . He is on call 24 -7 case a bus goes on the blink. If admim takes a 5% cut we can let him continue to take it home. The real question is has he ever come out after dark.
June 11th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Jack- that is a great suggestion. It would be great to have a group of people to really “follow the budget” and be ready to make rational suggestions for next year’s budget. I hope that there are some people who will come forward to work on this. I can’t get involved in anything else right now but I would be happy help by publishing information on the236diner.
June 11th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Well, I just sent the questions to Dr. Bearden and the school board. I asked to be placed on the school board June 18th meeting. Again, if this is another perk, for another employee of the Transportation Department. What’s going on? Wouldn’t it be more cost effective to pay him/her for the mileage when they are called in? And of course, there’s one more small issue of a W2.
June 12th, 2008 at 7:15 am
I’m interested in the ad hoc committee. I have some experience with school budgets, as I prepared them and sat on a finance committee for several years.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:18 am
There are many highly qualified special educators that will be working with the students identified under the Autism identification. The students receive the support they need and the program is highly successful. Some of these children are in schools right now that do not have a “autism” teacher on site.
June 12th, 2008 at 8:59 am
The IEP’s are being followed. However, the nature of direct services from the autism program (the way the services have been delivered versus how they will be delivered going forward)will be different. I speak from personal experience.
June 12th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Although the teachers are trained to “deal” with children on the spectrum, they do not have the depth of knowledge to understand the unique needs of each of these children and understand what may be going on in that child’s head when things aren’t going well. Unless you have a child on the spectrum, you wouldn’t necessarilly fully understand what I’m talking about.
June 12th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Please understand that I am also concerned with the cuts in personnel. I work in special education and have for the past 18 years. So although I don’t have a child with autism, I have worked with many different children on the spectum. I am however hopeful that the staff on board has the experience and expertise to provide an excellent education for all children.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I’m hopeful as well. I just know that the Autism specialist spent 7 years developing a program specific to the unique needs of children on the spectrum, and now there isn’t anyone to oversee it.
June 12th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
That van is costing us quite a bit in gas alone when you consider the person’s home is not only across state lines, but is 45 minutes away from here. At $4/gallon, that’s a lot of gas when you add it all up for the school year. Add that up with the laptops, and there’s some money there. I realize it’s not vast sums compared to the entirety of the budget, but it’s those “little” things add up. So many people were upset about town employees getting step increases, I hope those same people show up when we “negotiate” (that’s if we as taxpayers are even included in those discussions) a raise for our superintendent. He certainly makes more than most of the town employees do.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Yes. That is why I’m a little disappointed in people who’ve said they disagree with one part of the school budget, but voted for it anyway. That was the one way, as voters, that we could have sent a message to the school board.
June 12th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Having seen what happens in other towns when a school budget doesn’t pass, I voted for it. I firmly believe that going back to the drawing board on the budget over the laptops and the van would have been a huge mistake. The vote taken at the budget meeting was the oppotunity to have those articles overturned. As it was passed by those residents at the meeting, so should it stand at the ballot box.
I do agree, though, that the school board has an opportunity to do the right thing and decline on the laptops. Just because the money is in the budget, doesn’t mean that it has to be spent….
June 12th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
I don’t agree with mrspeel when he/she says if it passed at the meeting then it should pass at the ballot box. Some people could not make it at that meeting and that is why their vote counts at the ballot box. The van, the laptops as well as the increase in administrative personnel should have been enough for the school budget to not have passed. Unfortunately it did, but not by a wide margin. The citizens of South Berwick and Eliot need to make the school board understand that they need to do more by cutting some of these accesses.
June 12th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
You all are underestimating the power of inertia. Budgets have passed year after year. They never fail. So you have a sizeable portion of the population that believes it is useless to come out and vote against it.
Also, how many people knew about all the superfluous fat? Yes, all the people here who are the “involved”. Most folks in town simply don’t have the time to get into the mechanics of what’s going on, much less individual line items on the School budget. That’s why the Board was so comfortable about putting in the computers, and then, despite objections during the working group sessions, just keeping it in the final draft. Same goes for the van.
If we want to change this, you’ve got to blast away the inertia. My suggestion would be, for next time, is to go thru the Budget line by line, and then write up all the objections. Highlight the fat. And then, print out 2K of them, and take an afternoon and ride around and stick it in every mailbox in town.
If more people knew what was in the budget, and that they were not alone in being pretty angry, you’d find more people showing up to vote, and to vote against the budget.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
I think the statement “Just because the money is in the budget, doesn’t mean that it has to be spent….” is rather naive. Does anyone REALLY think that they won’t spend every last cent? Really? Or does any ‘extra’ get shuffled off to the reserve that ‘can’t’ be touched? Because I doubt it will ever come back to the voters in the form of a savings, or tax cut. I think the Board is fiscally irresponsible, and I have no trust or faith in them whatsoever to reign in their demands and their spending. Show me some fiscal restraint, show me a ‘think-outside-the-box attitude, show me how the board works WITH their community to meet the needs, then I’ll change my mind about them.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
I think they are complacent in their irresponsibility. Unless we get a budget turned down a time or two in the next year or two, its just going to get worse.
Meanwhile, do we know if they all went to Best Buy today and bought their new computers? And how about that van? Can’t wait to see how much that costs…I say the guy gets it fully loaded and with GPS added…so he doesn’t get lost between here and his home in NH when he “has to come in at night”.
June 13th, 2008 at 7:07 am
Sally–Please refrain from making accusations about people. We hear you are angry about the school budget. These are people who live and/or work in South Berwick. Please treat them with respect on this blog.
June 13th, 2008 at 7:32 am
Molly, that a mildly sarcastic comment is considered “inappropriate” or disrespectful or making an accusation speaks absolute volumes about why the School Board feels so free, so complacent to disregard taxpayer objections.
volumes.
June 13th, 2008 at 7:49 am
Sally–I would have said the same thing no matter where the persons work. Sarcasm does not translate well to internet comments and some may read it as fact. I ask commenters to put themselves in the shoes of the person they are speaking about.
June 13th, 2008 at 8:14 am
Sally,
Just an FYI, the van the facilities manager is using is already in existence and in use. It may be scheduled for replacement soon, but I don’t know that it is.
I don’t have a problem with the manager using a school van to go from school to school during the work day. There are time he may need to bring some bulky items from place to place, and insurance may be a problem if something were to happen during working hours if he were to use personal transportation at that time.
What I do object to is the little perks like the ability to travel back and forth to work on the tax payers dime.
This added mileage shortens the amount of time the vehicle can be used for school purposes prior to being replaced.
In fact, the van to be used in this regard could be one of the older vans that are now used to transport children, but is targeted for replacement.
Replace the transport van, and put the older one in use for the facilities manager to use localy during work hours, thus adding 1-2 years of use.
June 13th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
The Superintendent called my yesterday to answer the questions that I had posted both here and to the School Board. I asked him to please e-mail me so I can post his response…he said he rather not. So I will be on the agenda at the next school board meeting, June 18 @ 7 pm, at the high school. I am on the agenda to address the questions pertaining to the van and the truck that goes to Waterboro. I want it to be part of the minutes and public record for the future budget. Just a little hint on his answers, the truck that goes to Waterboro it’s another perk for another employee. How many more are there?
June 13th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
ladyjane calling the kettle black again!what part of personal attack do you get out of that post.
that is the attitude of all you bigtime bloggers on this site.lets take everything to the extreme as usual huh.like hank said “get a grip”. you wouldnt want us to to pesonally attack you.
its crazy that you sit and spew your views all day long and as soon as someone states the obvious,oh no,personal attack!!! i guess someone had to say it and look,im not the only one who thinks that.
sally is putting the town in a negative light and i have said it to
“kc” its not that bad. ladyjane try to get over yourself for once!
‘
June 13th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Wow, I’m a big-time blogger? Thanks. I actually wasn’t responding to Hank, I was responding to YOU, and I wasn’t saying that I was personally attacked. Not sure what your point is. But, I’ll defer to Molly. If she thinks I overstepped my bounds you’ll be the first person I spew my apologies to Tim.
June 13th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
tim-Stop with the name calling. If what you read on this makes you mad, don’t read it. And everyone else, please act as though you were in the same room with the people on the blog. We don’t have to all agree but we can state our opinions respectfully. Since I read all the posts, I can see how one snide or sarcastic comment just sends the whole discussion into a negative spin. When people are discussing respectfully we get to hear good ideas, viewpoints we may have never heard, and we get to learn more about the town. I firmly believe that if all citizens get to hear many viewpoints and can learn more about what happens in town we will make better decisions as a town. There is certainly enough strife in the world, why would we want to create more of it in the town where we live and where our children live?
June 13th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
To the people saying move out if you don’t like paying high taxes around here… That is the most luducris thing I have ever heard. Citizens come here to voice concerns about South Berwick. Everyone has a right to their opinion. South Berwick taxes and Maine in general cannot keep going up. Maine has one of the lowest rates of youth staying in this State. We keep going at that rate and we’re all doomed. The taxes in South Berwick are out of control for such a small town.
The sad thing is that no one can voice their opinion about the school budget because they are then anti school. It’s a joke.
To me it seems Maine is all about taxing to help people instead of letting people TAKE CARE OF THEMSELF! So when a petition came out to repeal the bottle tax, I got flyer after flyer teling me to not sign the petition. Well, I did because what’s next? Oh yeah, now we South Berwick Citizens have to pay for trash bags and the town isn’t even going to pick it up for us like surrounding NH towns. You know what happens next? The Citizens decide to pay for trash pickup through WM or local trash removal services so the town doesn’t get the money they anticipate. If you are going to pay for it, you might as well pay for someone to remove it from your curb.
I will not move, because I like the school district that my kids are accustomed too. I wouldn’t hurt them even though finanically I am hurting! I’m not to knowledgable about teacher salaries and where all the money is going at the school so I can’t really say don’t give them the money, but how do other States in this Country do it? How does NH tax so little and Maine tax at the top? Our schools I feel are better then NH? But is it $6,000 (estimated income tax, bottle tax, sales tax, etc) better per family? I don’t think so…
June 13th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Also, how many police officers are in this town? I’m am not saying get rid of cops, because they are needed. I am asking because we are a young family that never have been involved in any local budgets. We are just starting to read and research local government and I THANK whoever created this website. I’m curious how many officers there are and why was there ever a need for a $30k (not including decals and equipment) Ford Expedition? I hear decals and equipment going into police vehicles cost upwards of $20K in addition to the MSRP on the vehicle. Would saving $5-8K for a Ford Explorer been worth it? I realize there is some rugged terrain around these parts. I saw Eliot’s Suburban the other day and almost threw up. If an individual has the money for a Suburban ($50K) so be it, have fun. But the taxpayers of Eliot paid for a brand new Suburban? That’s crazy.
June 13th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Jesse,
I believe their are currently 8 officers, but the department got the approval to hire an investigator, which will bring it to 9.
June 13th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Please replace their with there
June 13th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Sorry. Didn’t realize someone would nitpick on my grammar. I’ll admit I am no College Scholar. I am in the trades. I guess I have no excuse.
How do people feel about having 8 Officers plus a Investigator in a Town of 7,000 Citizens. Do we really need an Investigator I guess the extremes are evident. We have 8 Officers plus an Investigator, and a town like Lebanon has no Police Officers. I don’t agree with Lebanon at all, but it seems extreme to have 9 Officers in this Town.
June 13th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Sorry Dave… LOL. I take it you were referring to yourself? I make grammatical errors all the time so I figured that was directed at me.
June 13th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Jesse- I can’t imagine it would be more cost effective for most people to pay for trash pickup versus paying $1 a bag. For the general population that is carefully watching the money the spend it doesn’t seem feasible. We’re a family of four and between recycling and composting we’ve been able to limit our weekly trash to just a couple of bags. I’m guessing WM would be a considerable amount more.
While I don’t necessarily like taking my weekly trip to the transfer station (road rage center of SB) and feel the setup could be much more efficient I give the town a lot of credit for committing to recycling early on. And the people that work there are surprisingly helpful and friendly.
Glad to see you’re becoming more involved in learning more about the town and how it’s run. I’ve just recently started doing the same… starting by attending the school budget meeting. That was an eye opening experience for certain. The biggest surprise was learning that I would learn something of value from some of the folks that had differing ideas than me. On occasion I even found myself agreeing with some of their individual points.
My general advice is to try and keep an open mind even when you think your mind is made up… but do your own research and don’t buy into rhetoric, speculation and opinion until you know what the facts are.
June 14th, 2008 at 6:19 am
Jesse,
)
There are 168 hours in a week.
168 divided by 40 = 4.2 officers (never seen a .2 before
Some shifts require more than one officer.
Officers are allowed days off.
Officers go on vacation and call in sick.
With only 4.2 officers, there would be several days when an officer pulls 2 shifts.
This would increase mistakes, unhappiness, lack of job applicants, etc…
The investigator is new.
The idea is to have the patrolmen patroling instead of inside the office investigating.
June 14th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Thanks for your post Jesse,
I have been told I am just “complaining” or that I don’t want to pay for the services in this town.
I think it’s pretty mean spirited as well as ridiculous to say “move out” if you don’t want to pay for them.
When I was going to Central School during the paleolithic period, I used to hear my parents complain about their taxes in SB. Now that I am paying taxes, I have a better understanding of their concerns.
I don’t want to take anything away from anyone. I love this town. I don’t want to move. Some people have been pushed out because they can’t afford to live here anymore (Mostly those on fixed incomes).
That is sad and also, it is hurting the culture of the place. If I am the only one who is worried about being able to come up with the BIG increase in taxes, so be it. It’s my problem. But if there are others living in SB who live paycheck to paycheck, maybe they are worried too.
June 14th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
AC,
I believe WM gets around $75 a quarter. My family throws probably 4 bags of trash away per week. So yes, you would be saving $9/month to go to the transfer station. I see that every little bit counts, but is $9 worth the hassle of going to the station, and dealing with the choas and traffic at the station?
Either way, it seems to me that the town council needs to keep finding money elsewhere rather then raise taxes and fees.
June 14th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
They won’t. But into your formula, don’t forget to add the cost of gas to get to the dump, then idling while there. It might just come out pretty close.
June 14th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Jesse- thanks for the info about WM. Certainly can’t beat the convenience of home pick-up. Even a better deal for those that live further away.
June 15th, 2008 at 9:21 am
to answer jesse’s questions.the need for the officers is there.
just look at the call volume they do.
then go to berwick and see how many fulltime officers they have.
we do have a large area to cover and i think all the townspeople deserve to see an officer ride by at least once a day.
we could actually could use more on the weekends due to volume of activity and for safety of our officers.
the iv
investigator is also needed,because of the increase of crime.we are no different than other towns as far as crime but it will always increase as we grow.
high gas prices make people due strange things to get by.
June 15th, 2008 at 11:33 am
I agree with AC. If WM was smart, they’d put together an incentive program for new customers in South Berwick. I’m sure they’d get a fair amount of business. We’re going to definitely check them out.
June 15th, 2008 at 11:33 am
That was me.
June 15th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
hey ladyjane did you get picked on as a child?you always say we and by that i mean men call people names when i cant see it ever!
and as usual molly jumps to defend the women geesh!!!
if this is suppose to be a diner,i dont think you have ever been in one.
its a joke!you always come out swinging like a maniac to defend something that isnt even there.and then you look for support from all the others.you made me laugh when you said i was responding to YOU,big giant letters you must be yelling at the computer.you invest way to much emotion into this.dont let it get you down.now im laughing.THANKS!!!
June 15th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Did a little reserch for some of your questions Jesse. The Ford expidition the town owns is five years old and has amost 100 thousand miles. It is used during all snow storm with no need to chain cars tires. It was used during floods and extreme storms. It cost 25,000 and had 5000 worth of equpt. installed. The lettering was added by a local taxpayer at his business. cost approx 600 dollars. Total cost for the vehicle 31,000 it still runs well and the dept hopes to keep it a couple more years if possible. It is very easy to get the correct info prior to getting on here and talking uninformed.
June 16th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Thanks for the correction. Like I said, we are a young family and don’t know the ropes as to where to get this information. I’m sure you know someone at the department or work there to be able to get this information?
Remember though, my question didn’t have anything to do with the cost of the lettering or equipment ( that stuff is relative and a must). My question was to saving a few bucks and getting a smaller SUV. So you can say I am uninformed but I didn’t question the lettering or equipment.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
government and I THANK whoever created this website. I’m curious how many officers there are and why was there ever a need for a $30k (not including decals and equipment) Ford Expedition? I hear decals and equipment going into police vehicles cost upwards of $20K in addition to the MSRP on the vehicle. Would saving $5-8K for a Ford Explorer been worth it? I realize
June 16th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Jessie This is your quotecurious how many officers there are and why was there ever a need for a $30k (not including decals and equipment) Ford Expedition? I hear decals and equipment going into police vehicles cost upwards of $20K in addition to the MSRP on the vehicle. Would saving $5-8K for a Ford Explorer been worth it? I realize
June 16th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Jesse,
I think I can answer the latter part of your question. In New Hampshire, Expeditions (police versions) are on the state contract, Explorers are not. I believe the Maine state contract is similar. This makes the price difference between the 2 negligible as the Expedition is better suited for severe duty. Generally equipment is in the $4-6k range, interestingly enough equipping an Explorer is MORE expensive than an Expedition due to the need for vehicle specific equipment. In the interest if full disclosure I work for a police vehicle up fitter.
June 16th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Nick,
Thank You very much. Your information is appreciated as I didn’t know how that worked. I’d rather have an Expedition over an Explorer also if they were comparable in price. In my case they are not, but the State contract would make sense to go for the Expedition.
Anonymous,
My quote does not question the price of the decals and equipment, it questions the price of vehicles. I didn’t know how much decals and equipment are, I was told they are really expensive by a friend. It doesn’t matter how much the decals and equipment are because they aren’t a want, they are a need. Nick has cleared this up and stated how the State contracts work into vehicle pricing.
June 16th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Jesse, You’re welcome. Like I said, I can only speak for sure on NH contracts, but I know Maine has a contract as well I’m just not versed on the particulars.
Never let anyone on the blog put down your questions, that’s what people are here for. The fact that you even question how things work puts you in a small minority of taxpayers who actually want to be informed.
June 17th, 2008 at 7:58 am
Nick,
I couldn’t agree more.
People need to feel free to ask questions on anything they don’t understand.
It’s the only way we can have an informed population so that people can make informed decisions when they vote, or want to speak at town meetings, etc…
June 17th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Agree, there is a need to ask questions. But please ask, do not try to analyze a situation or issue without being informed. Questions are great but !!!! I guess You know what I mean.
June 17th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Thanks Nick.
You said what I was thinking.
People need to be a lot more tolerant of others. I guess it can hurt when someone asks “the wrong questions”, or is not “informed”. They should suck it up. This is a public forum. Let the people speak.
June 17th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
FYI- Maine School Administrative District No. 35
Board of Directors - Regular Meeting
Marshwood High School
Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 7:00 p.m.
Agenda: item 3. Analysis of FY 09 Transportation Wages and Van for Facilities Director.
Please come and get informed! Plus I wouldn’t mind a little support. Thanks in advance.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Catalina,
What kind of support are you looking for? Just curious as I am intrigued by actually going to a School Board of Directors meeting. I have never been to one before.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
I’ll have to support you from afar. I have a previous engagement and am unable to change it. Looking forward to hearing how it goes, though. I’ll be sure to be at the next one.
June 18th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Catalina,
My wife and I will be trying to attend.
I’d also like to know why the Assistant Superintendant’s salary and benefits don’t fall under the Superintendant’s budget.
According to the boar at the budget meeting on June 5th, that falls under supplies and equipment.
June 18th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Jesse,
I am asking for people to come out to the meeting at 7:00, tonight. I have posted the questions and I need to know that the public is interested in pursuing the facts about the budget. Action is louder than words! Bring another tax paying friend. We need to call the school board on some of their decisions. Are they willing to forgo their laptops even though they’ve been approved? How about the superintendent.
For those of you who can’t go, thanks for your support also. The answers should be posted in the minutes of the meeting. This is why I want all questions asked of the school board, answered at the meetings. To make them public record.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
I don’t understand this obsession with the laptops. The Board has obviously determined that with transmission of the thousands of douments they need to review, that the convenience of standardized formats and modern methods for transmission and review will save them time and make them more efficient. They will save also on postage, and much, much, paper. In my business, those dollars are “short dollars”, very well spent. I mean, we are talking maybe $5,000 here, with direct $$ savings, and also increased efficiency. That’s a trivial amout compared to teh total budget, if it accomplishes these goals.
June 18th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Are you sure you’re not barking up the wrong tree? Is there really some other message you’d be more effective in making?
June 18th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Bill,
While I agree that $6,000 is trivial compared to the 26.2 mil budget, some things come to mind.
1) Unless they have a household email address for evey house in both towns, they will still have to send out mail to every house, so no real reduction in postage.
2) School Board meetings are public sessions unless they vote during the meeting to go into executive session. Will board business now take place out of the public forum via email? What rules and processes have been put in place to avoid misuse in this way?
3) The main reason provided was so they didn’t have to pass out hard copies of board documents during and prior to meetings, which is a noteworthy goal. However, what precautions are being taken to back up all of this data?
4) All of these documents are part of public records with the exception of personel related issues, which for the most part should be maintained in the Superintendants office.
How are these records now going to be available to the public?
June 18th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Dave your 100% correct. It will now need to matain for a public E-mail
access, and create another policy as how to release the emails to the public. in turn more reason for the public to become frustrated. There is by law only one keeper of the personel records. It can not be the computer taken home!!! We need now to get a copy of the use of public computer policy!!! Keep up the great work
June 18th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Dave,
These are competent people, with competent administration. These would be dedicated machiones with dedicated use, not to be mixed up with home email addresses. They would save a lot of printing and postage.The pit-falls you suggest will be avoided.
If your point is efficiencies, I would suggest you support the lapotops, and get on to some other thing. I honestly think this is the wrond example to be chasing. I think the credibility of the argument is lacking.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
You guys are something. There are no conspiracies. The board and the administration would assure that there is access toi all documents. You think that the laptops are a ploy to get around that? Come on… This is a simpel modernization; every business does this all the time; those that don’t fall by the wayside. If you want to make a point about costs, I would suggest you think of something else.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
This reminds me of the description I heard several years ago about a tax cap group that was off base:
“They know the cost of everything, but the value of nothing”
June 18th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Bill,
I was refering to the savings on postage you were refering to.
The home email addresses I was refering to are yours and mine etc… not their own home emails, because a bulk off the postage costs is sending information to every home in Eliot and South Berwick.
They are not mailing forms and paper work to each other prior to every meeting, but are passing them out at the meetings..
It is not out of the question to expect that policies be put in place to avoid misuse.
I am not accusing anyone of anything, just stating that having these policies in place prior to any problems arising is good business practice.
As I said to Susan Pullar, I don’t disagree with modernizing and reducing paperwork, I just believe that policies need to be put in place prior to anything like this going into practice.
I also feel that considering the fact that the state cut funding this year, there are many things in this year’s budget that could be looked at, and some of them put off until next year. This includes the laptops only because they are not a dire necessity at this time.
How are they going to avoid the multiple emails going back and forth, which could legally constitute a meeting?
You may be sure that these things will never happen.
I believe that policies and procedure should be put in place to make everything clear on proper useage.
June 18th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
OK…….. but take advantage of the efficiencies of laptops; they’re cheap and will have advantages that ought to start now. Again, there may be things that could be delayed or eliminated, but this is the wrong example. I think Catalina will be using this as a poor example of what she’s concerned about, and her argument will be diminished by that poor example.
June 18th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
I think Catalina has every right to ask for a explanation concerning the vans as well as the laptops. Unfortunately I wish I could have attended the school board meeting and I look forward to reading about the outcome on this website. This is a great tool to keep the public aware of what is going on in town and gives us a voice. thanks Molly.
June 18th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Bill take a deep breath!!!!! your lacking a little O2. back to earth !!!!!!
June 18th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
Anon,
My O2 levels are just fine, but thanks, but I still think you’re barking up the wrong tree. Your message may have validity, but your focus on those examples is not significant. The argument gets lost.
June 22nd, 2008 at 7:06 pm
I would like to know why the school budget has no money available for energy saving devices or systems.
The County Court House installed a Geo-Thermal system and went from$50,000 a year heating and cooling to $4,000.
Oil prices are not going down, ever.
There are all kinds of grants etc. out there. I will try to get to School Board meetings after the summer break.
Do I have to ask for permission to speak beforehand? If so, how democratic.
We need to have the School Board be more responsible to the citizens who are paying through the nose. we ask that our Town Council be more responsive, why not the School Board.
Oh by the way, some people may have high credit card debts,etc. etc.most people do not need to be in that situation.
When I grew up I was told to buy only those things I could afford, or wait to buy till I had saved enough. My credit card debt is 0 and I am on a fixed income.
With energy costs exploding and town taxes going up, I will have to cut back on a few things, no more splurges.
I voted against the school budget in the hope that if it goes back they would have to do a little tweaking, sadly the scare tactics of education getting worse and teachers having to get canned, and what not, worked.
The School Budget is the majority of my taxes, everybody got on the Town Council to cut and cut, including the circus with every item having someone to introduce a new number, the paper ballot on each item etc. but the school budget went with no major complaints. Go figure.
Have a good summer all, the bees are doing fine.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:19 am
George,
I believe that items that are scheduled for a school board meeting would be in the lines of some sort of presentation, and would not include questions about budget items and such wihich would be more suited for the public comment part of the meeting.
If you had a dog and pony show to provide information on the Geo-thermal systems, with a recommendation that the board look into it, then you might want to schedule time.
I could be wrong, but that is the impression I got at the last meeting, and from the rules and regs of the board meetings on the MSAD 35 web site.