In the News: August 21, 2008
Former South Berwick town manager to file complaint with Human …
Foster’s Daily Democrat
Emboldened by a recent ruling from the state Department of Labor that found he was pressured to resign, former Town Manager Jeff Grossman is launching an aggressive campaign to get his old job back.
New leadership takes the reins at two SAD 35 schools
Foster’s Daily Democrat
There will be some new faces walking the halls of two School Administrative District 35 schools this fall.
State pushes Kittery to join with Wells school district
Foster’s Daily Democrat
The state is asking the local School Committee to meet with the Wells-Ogunquit Community School District School Committee to talk about consolidating the two districts in an effort to cut costs.
Property valuations are mailed in Eliot
York Weekly
Homeowners may have been shocked with the new property valuations they received in the mail this week, but the town assessor urges residents to use caution when interpreting the numbers.
Morning crash injures Berwick woman
Foster’s Daily Democrat
A Berwick, Maine woman escaped serious injury Wednesday morning after police say her car veered across the center line and nearly collided head on with a Berwick Public Works truck.
Tags: news
August 21st, 2008 at 10:56 am
I wonder how much more the Town Manager issue is going to cost the town? Will the courts put us right back where we were 5 months ago, but much poorer?
It looks like we’re going to have a boat load more legal costs, and potentially have to pay the balance of the ex managers contract, and even possibly hire him back.
Now I’m really ticked off about the whole situation.
I understand that some of the council and townspeople had problems with the ex manager, but it looks like some very poor choices may have been made.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:48 pm
I think it is very convenient for Mr. Grossman to be able to publicly have his say knowing full well that the terms for his leaving, as well as policy regarding personnel matters, prevent the town council from being able to defend their decision. I’m sure there is plenty that is not known for those very reasons. All three councilors in question have participated in our community (school board, planning board, and conservation commission to name a few) for quite some time, and have had good standing relations with the community up until now. Mr. Grossman’s record is not nearly as long, nor has his community relations been nearly as good as these three who are being called into question. I continue to find it hard to believe they acted arbitrarily without any merit whatsoever in a way they felt would detriment the town. If Mr. Grossman wants to continue to have his say so publicly, he should also give his permission for the other side of the story to be heard, or he should stop talking all together.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Unfortunately, one or more official state boards have already sided with Mr. Grossman.
He is eligible for unemployment benefits.
According to one of those agencies, apparently, they did not feel that the town was justified in asking him to leave.
I never had any dealing with him so I am not defending him, or advocating for his return.
Nor am I trying to accuse anyone of anything.
My concern is what this is going to cost the tax payers of South Berwick.
At the very least, we will incur additional legal fees.
At the worst, we could have a situation where the ex manager is reinstated, and still has to work with the councilors that did not see eye to eye with him.
It has been my experience that when someone in reinstated, the working relationship is much worse than before.
South Berwick could find itself in some serious financial straits.
I too wish the council was able to open up and address the issue publicly.
Since they can not, I can only voice my concerns about the costs, and effect the possible future can hold for South Berwick in a potentially very bad situation.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Good for Mr. Grossman. We all but begged for answers from the council and never got them. I don’t blame him for having his say, he deserves it. His reputation is ruined and he has already won a small victory in mediation. I could see this coming a mile away and the fact that the council couldn’t (at least three of them) amazes me. As a taxpayer, I don’t want to see this cost us another dime, but I had a feeling from day one it would. I wish it would go away, but I cannot blame Jeff Grossman for this. I am not advocating anyone, but if anybody thinks this situation was handled properly, i’ve got a church to sell you.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Most separation agreements in this day and age have confidentiality clauses, so it is neither convenient nor inconvenient that the councilors can’t say anything-it is just a sign of the times. Several people wanted him out, this was the price that was paid - money, and knowing they can’t talk about it. Likewise, he can’t reveal details other than to whomever is mentioned in the clause (attorneys, agents for the town, etc.), so I’m not sure he CAN have his say publicly. If he breaks the terms of the agreement, perhaps the town would have legal recourse. While I’m sure this was not how the councilors envisioned this would go, the fact remains this is all due to how and why Grossman ‘resigned’ and how they handled the situation. I hope it can be resolved at a minimum cost to the taxpayers.
August 21st, 2008 at 1:44 pm
the councilors had the opportunity to bring it all out during mediation. Obviously they didn’t have the goods.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:17 pm
They more than likely had the goods, what they didn’t have was some common sense, cool heads, and some decent legal advice. Panicking at the time left the town hall closed for a week, the snow removal crews on their own to run up huge bills, and clearly as we can see now, a legal situation that was not put to rest, just delayed.
Grossman left this town in utter financial disarray. Last I heard, incompetence is still reasonable grounds for firing. What this town council needs to do now is stop trying to cheap out with the legal costs and hire some decent firepower to put this to rest.
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:31 am
great! hire some more lawyers! just what we need more legal bills.
August 22nd, 2008 at 8:37 am
Oh, so, we should spend $200K and let Grossman come back to fill out his term, to save $25K in legal bills?
Listen, when the initial agreement was signed, Grossman should have also been compelled to sign a “Waiver & Release”. With this, he would have given up all future claims against the town. It could have been adapted slightly to include filing all these Labor complaints as well.
As he was paid over $100K in the settlement and apparently wasn’t asked to sign a waiver & release, is …….I mean, what kind of lawyer is advising the town here? They could have a legal malpractice case, if nothing else.
This is sheer insanity.
August 22nd, 2008 at 9:50 am
After reading all of Mr. Grossman’s demands, it is clear that he is not worried about what his actions will cost the town. This is not the type of town manager we need. If there was a lot of publicity about his leaving it was primarily from interviews that he himself gave to the media. The negative fall-out is largely his own fault. It is time to move on and not stir up all this again.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
well, good luck with that. without a waiver and release in place, the town is going to be forced into fighting this out in the courts and mediation.
we should look into the legal malpractice situation, at least there we could recover some of the costs.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:50 am
Public employment Law is very complex. What I see on this blog are individuals attempting to put a spin on Issues thay have no direction or education about. It will take lots of money and time to complete the process. But I can assure you it will never get resolved on this sight. No matter what your spin may be . This situation could have been handled in a manor that had more thought and planing behind it.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:53 am
Hey did you hear about the new bridge we are getting on 236, It’s about time.
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:01 am
john…. i am a lawyer. its not that complex. what was overlooked was BASIC.
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:36 am
again i am not advocating Mr. Grossman. And I am not speaking on his behalf, but if you truly felt you were wronged, that your reputation was ruined and you were finding it difficult to find employment within your profession .. what would you do? Anything different?? He, along with two other councilors and a mediator seem to believe he was forced out without just cause, how would any of us take that? Should he just walk away and accept it? I don’t know if you would Jess, maybe you would.
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:48 am
1) Much of the publicity generated in this situation was produced by Mr. Grossman. Beyond the initial flurry of “town hall is closed”, the story would have died within a week.
2) A signed waiver and release should have been a requirement to complete the buyout of his contract — and Grossman getting the buyout money. Clearly that was not done. Had it been done, the entire matter would have died there.
3) Had Grossman refused to sign the waiver and release, the town would have fired him, and he’d be exactly where he is today, doing exactly what he is doing today…..with 100K less of town money. And trying to fund his various appeals, etc., himself. As it is now, he’s got a very nice town subsidy to fund all his various legal machinations.
Grossman and his lawyer probably went out to their car after the termination meeting in a daze shocked at their good luck.
Talk about the gang that couldn’t shoot straight.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I agree Anonymous. But I will not just put the blame on Mr. Grossman. You’re a lawyer, would you advise your client to just walk away for the better of the town?? I saw this coming months ago. It was bungled from the beginning.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:20 pm
No, i’m saying that the town needs to hire some competent legal help. As it is, with the “advice” they are getting, this could drag on for years and because the town won’t spend the money on competent legal help, ending up costing a fortune. Losing a dollar to save a dime…..
Had I been Grossman’s lawyer, I would have pulled over in the first parking lot out of sight of town hall, and done a “happy dance”……
Doesn’t anyone in this town’s government ever think things thru and consider the ramifications? It seems like everything is done simply in the name of expediency and with no thought whatsoever given to any possible outcome other than getting something “off my desk today”.
And people are surprised this town is in trouble. That alone is simply amazing.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:47 pm
I couldn’t agree more. I didn’t get my point across as well, but I totally agree. Clearly thinking things through is not their strong point, as they didn’t even ask themselves ..ok so we fire the town manager, what next? (call it firing, call it a forced resignation, either way) I believe more than one of them used the term “dropping the ball” in reference to their lack of foresight. Yep, I’d say you did and I am not just talking about shutting down the town.
August 22nd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Great ! It looks like we can have a trial right now. Anyone a JUDGE !!!
August 22nd, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I wonder if the waiver etc. were signed and are in place, and Grossman has the nerve and #$@& to stir this up. He’s got a large reputation of litigation (and losing the litigation). Just “Google” Jeffrey A Grossman Westbrook Maine, and see what comes up. Go down to the Jaguar case, and then go down to when he sued the City of Westbrook (Grossman v Richards) over his exit there, and see that he’s lost big. He’s a loser. He should sit on his $102 k and get a life, and go away.
August 22nd, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Which begs the question of why he was hired here in the first place.
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Usually, with a correctly, competently written waiver and release, you forfeit the settlement payment — here 102K — if you chose to go on and litigate.
Clearly, there is nothing in place, because if there were, you’d simply fill papers immediately and ask for an immediate summary judgement. That, apparently, is not happening, so we can only assume that there was no waiver and release signed.
Which, with this information on Grossman’s past in hand, is even more irresponsible in retrospect that I had realized.
Who is the town lawyer? They should be fired immediately….we should also be looking into some sort of malpractice action against them. This is beyond ridiculous. Does anyone on the Town Council have any experience whatsoever in dealing with legal situations?
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 pm
The Town’s lawyer, Chris Vaniotis, of Burnstien Shur,must be keenly aware of this. He should be able to inform the public of what has happened , or not happened, here. The public should demand an explanation from Vaniotis and the Town Council of what the story is here.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:22 pm
The Town Councliul was NOT informed of the Westbrook case when Grossman was hired in the first place. And who was screening candidates? Maine Municipal Association, the same outfit that is advising them THIS time around. Go MMA!!
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Town attornety Chris Vaniotis:
His number is :
207 774-1200
His email is:
cvaniotis@bernsteinshur.com
August 24th, 2008 at 9:54 am
anon 4 Let it be known the town council was aware of his past record. It was as easy to find back then as it is today. Look at his hireing and see who completed the background. Lets look at who forced this issue and know the council members are not lawyers. A few of them were well advised as to the illigal activity. yes well advised. Where are the backers of there last few months. You know the one’s that were pusshing hard on the back door. John R, Bill S, Brad C, Jack K ect you know who you are and now we are going to pay for all the )^)*&^ . Don”t fade away just stand up for your illfated attemp to get what you wanted. I will not be surprised if in fact he gets the Job back . If one would ask Mr. Grossman for a copy of his settlement agrement I am sure He will give you a copy. Lets ask why a council chair did not leave the unemployment issue alone. I belive there was an agrement by the town not to interfear with his right to draw. I think a few council people owe us at least the information as to why thay let a few hard nose backers to push them into this mess. We could have let him work out his contract and moved forward!
August 24th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Litigate : Is that what its called when you file a complaint with the Human Rights Commision. Not sure your on the right page. What He is doing is setting some People up for Personal Damages. I belive his settlement excludes him from any litigation against the town. If any thing it will be the human rights people that will bring the charges against the town. There answer will be pay him the total contract or give him a Job that pays the same !!!! Sorry for all the gloom and doom here but I will say it again public employment is very different then private sector. Very , when it comes to Property ownership of ones Job. Its falls under Rights.
August 24th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
excuse me, but that is the most incoherent analysis of the legal situation to date. If this is any indication of the level of understanding, analysis or legal acumen of the people involved or on the periphery of this decision, it is no wonder the town is in such trouble.
Employment law is not that complex. It is not rocket science. To people — lawyers in the field — it is fairly cut and dried, particularly when there is a question of incompetence involved. Here, the Town’s current level of debt and the spending of the past years under Grossman most certainly open his competence up to question.
It isnt’ rocket science. You simply need to get knowlegeable advice before taking action. Clearly that didn’t happen here. And now, you get comments like the the one immediate before this one…….no wonder this town is so screwed up.
Could we get this town council to spend a dime and call a real lawyer? To get someone to lead these guys out of the wilderness? Right now, they obviously don’t have good help….and whining about how “complex” the situation is …is NOT an excuse. The taxpayers are already paying dearly for the Town Council’s actions and inability to control the budget.
HIRE A REAL LAWYER AND END THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 26th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
So, no one knows why the three councilors asked for Grossman’s resignation because the councilors can’t publicly comment?
August 26th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
That would seem to be the case.
The unemployment board seemde to believe that he deserved benefits, which means they aren’t buying the “he quit on his own” defense.
If that is the case, and he can prove there were extenuating circumstances due to internal pressure for his resignation, he may win damages or his job back.
August 26th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
He took the money. $102,000. He’s a loser in previous attempts to sue former employers. MMA “forgot” to tell the Town Council that hired him about his lawsuit against Westbrook ME when he was discharged there(which he lost in a very large way). He’s damaged goods. He deserves nothing other than to be ignored; and should have the sense to fade away.
August 26th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
That’s a nice thought Anon4, unfortunately, the courts do not accept the “we’re not interested, thank you” option.
This will cost the town money if it goes anywhere near a court house.
Regardless of anyones feelings for this person, this is an issue the town has to address, and all the wishing in the world won’t make it just go away.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Like the attornet that posted several days ago Grossman was supposed to have agreed to “drop it” in exchange for $102,000. Over $100,000! He’s goy his hand in my pocket and your pocket. The Town lawyer, Vaniotis of Burnstein Shur had better get a hold of this and end it. Or should he be sued for malpractice?
August 27th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Did the Department of Labor hear testimony from both parties in the process of deciding Manager Grossman was “pressured to resign”?
I don’t recall reading or hearing so but I may have missed it.
If not, the Department of Labor only heard one side of the story and the other side could be different.
August 27th, 2008 at 5:44 am
Bill,
The council chair was reprortedly at the meeting, but did not have the attorney present.
August 27th, 2008 at 8:12 am
of course not. of course they “economized” by sending the council chair without an attorney.
my god. the gang that couldn’t shoot straight. they are going to end up costing us all hundreds of thousands more as this wends it way thru the courts, hearing and arbitrations for years to come.
you’d think by now. at the very least, one or two of them might have figured out they need some serious advice.
August 27th, 2008 at 11:47 am
each member was invited to the meeting and they were called in indivdually. i believe the council chair was present when each individual spoke, but i am not positive. i do know that each member was given an opportunity to speak, not just the council chair. i am not sure the mediator was interested in talking to the lawyer, he most likely wanted the reasons for their (the council) pushing the issue to begin with. Now even though we may not know all the reasons, he should have been given them. So… obviously they came up a bit short. I am not saying better legal advise wouldn’t have helped when the separation agreement was drawn up, however, the mediation meeting wasn’t about legal advise, it was about a concils decision to force resignation.
August 27th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
excuse me, but again, a far more professional way to handle this is to be accompanied by a lawyer. a lawyer does not answer the arbitrator/mediator’s question, but rather, sits to the side and advises……
if the lawyer is not permitted to sit in the room with the client, he/she sits outside, and when the person hits a questionable area, they excuse themselves and go outside for a consult.
whatever happens, the individuals speaking for the town should have been consulting with the lawyer on the situation and been advised as to what to say and what not to say.
all that said, another mishandled situation, and another one that should never have arisen if the initial termination had been handled properly.
this town council needs a serious injection of professionalism. its time to grow up, put on some big boy clothes and understand this is not a game or a tit for tat competition between council members. The taxpayers of this town should not be paying dearly for personality differences or disagreements.
once the termination was completed, the two members of the council that disagreed should have closed ranks with the rest and worked to resolve this before costing the town a fortune. Unfortunately, we are all going to end up paying for someone’s idea of “revenge”.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
You can bet that 1 of the 2 councilors that disagreed are leaking stuff to Grossman.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
I don’t believe that for a minute.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I think you can bet on it.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
They are sandbagging the entire council repeatedly.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Well, unless you have proof that’s a pretty strong accusation. Are you referring to the two who didn’t want to force Grossman out?
August 27th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Because if you are, I couldn’t disagree more. The ones who forced the resignation are ill-prepared for their positions, and one is downright nasty to people. I think they do more damage to the council’s reputation than anyone else.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Since all the meetings are public, with the exception of executive session, and there has been no further executive session in regards to Mr Grossman, what information could be “leaked” that isn’t already public record?
If by sandbagging you mean to not rubber stamping everything the other 3 councilors want, then I would not call that sandbagging.
I wouldn’t want a council where all the councilors are not allowed to express their opinion just because more of the councilors want things a certain way.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Read the papers, and judge for yourself their public comments as an indication. Nasty? The one I’m thinking about can be (and is) downrigt nasty as well.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Well, Anon,
The two you are refering two will not be running for reelection this year.
It a good time to put your papers in and do a better job.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I find the current majority to be trying hard to build consensus; unlike the previous majority who ram-rodded things one after another after another. When majorities shift, it’s amazing how people howl. Amazing how the pot then calls the kettle black.
August 27th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
the one i am thinking of wants to make record his voting on the issue clear and there is nothing wrong with that. That doesn’t mean he is leaking anything. come on, that accusation is out there and this not the place for it. The rest of us in here are smarter than that.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
p.s. giving your opinion in the papers is a lot better than saying nothing at all. It’s a form of communication and the councilors that go on record should be commended for it, any of them. I wish they would all do it, maybe we would better understand what they were thinking. Leaking? that’s a huge stretch.
August 27th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
for some
August 27th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
You know, in big boy world, when someone loses a corporate battle, they suck it up and move on…..and the corporation presents a UNITED FRONT on the decision if the corporation should face litigation as the result of the decision.
That is what should have gone on here. Talking to the papers, back dooring people, it is disgraceful. Utterly disgraceful. IF THIS TOWN HAD ADEQUATE LEGAL COUNSEL, the lawyer would be telling the group to shut up……..
This gets more and more childish and idiotic and ineptly handled every day. Unfortunately, at the end of the day, we are all going to pay dearly for these antics.
How do we dump this entire group and get a new council of experienced, professional, educated adults?
August 27th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
we tried that. It got voted down.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Like it or not, it’s called democracy. You have to run in elections to get in (or out). Mid- term referendums on a whim of 10% was ill-conceived.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Just reread the article on this situation. Ultimately it could cost the town 300K. Peachy. Time for these fools to grow up and hire a real lawyers.
Also, whatever Burke did or didn’t ask Grossman to do as far as scheduling a meeting is a ridiculous premise for this guy to ask to be paid his entire salary for the next two years.
The Town Council — WITH ITS ATTORNEY — needs to up the ante here considerably and change the playing field to consider Grossman’s competence. They should — WITH PROPER REPRESENTATION — be in there fighting this on multiple fronts.
Not this idiotic back and forth about who said they would schedule a meeting, and who went to executive decisions. This is like some stupid playground battle.
I, for one, am seriously not interested in paying for the Town Council to continue its amateur hour on trying to settle this.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
and, we should also go after that organization that did the search for the town when they hired Grossman.
Why was the town not advised of Grossman’s previous litigation efforts?????????????????????????????????
This is trench warfare, and its about time the Council woke up and realized it. Before they cost us 300K
August 27th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Run for council?
August 27th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
careful anonymous some people in here think they are doing a fine job! they get quite upset with those of us who express a distaste for incompetence.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
i’d love to, but I couldn’t get elected. I’m a newcomer to town, and I favor a sound ordinance, and prodding the current code enforcement officer to actually enforce the codes and the Town Zoning Board’s decisions for ALL town residents. Not just some.
So, i couldn’t get elected. There’d be some pretty heavy duty action against me.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
God knows, i understand that, BSS…..
and you know, i resent paying for their delusions.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Well, we’re ALL paying for someone’s delusions by approving the school budget. Don’t think you corner the market on resentment! I’d love to run for the school board, but I don’t see eye to eye with ONE person on that board, and I don’t want the aggravation.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Two questions >>> so how great are the new computers the board bought themselves? Did they get the gaming equipped models? Those are sweet.
And, so, has the Town Council asked for bids or proposals on a new health insurance policy for town employees? Or are we still going to be one of the few remaining muncipalities or businesses in the country offering a complete free ride?
August 27th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
i think the maintenance man needs a laptop for his new van in case he gets lost going home, he could always google mapquest.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
They’ll probably have to put that in next year’s budget. I don’t think there is enough money to cover that in the big slush account.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Wow, now there’s some cynicism.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
the assistant to the assistant principal will find a way
August 27th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
i don’t think its cynicism at all….i think they have truly abused the trust of the public and people are getting just completely fed up.
The council, the school board, they don’t seem to grasp that many people in town are having a very hard time economically. its not good enough to whine that employment law is “complex”, and no wonder things got screwed up. They have to settle this before it costs the town a couple hundred thousand more dollars. And the way to settle this is to make it just as expensive for Grossman, and all the people supporting him (the MME or whoever it was) to continue.
And the rest of this, the computers, the insurance, the assistant to the assistant……there’s an attitude here towards public money that has to change.
August 27th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Then run for office.
It’s easy to snipe. All these folks are public minded people, donating their time for no other reason thatn they offered up themselves to face issues with the judgements that bring to the task.
August 27th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Part of the problem has been that the Council has had a bad professional manager for years. The interim manager is holding down the fort as best she can; but they need a competent Town Manager, which they are in the process of hiring.
August 27th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Maybe I should have put a little smiley face after my comment. Sharon, no offense, but I’ll pose this question to you since you’ve most recently brought it up. Does EVERYONE who has a ‘cynical’ opinion, or a differing opinion have to run for office? There are very few seats available on town council or the school board, and there are as many opinions as there are people so that isn’t even a realistic response to a negative comment. I don’t think it is ’sniping’ to voice an opinion, nor do I think you have to run for office in order to voice an opinion. And I’m tired of people labeling other people’s posts as cynical. I don’t label peoples’ viewpoints as ‘idiotic’, ’short-sighted’, ‘negative’, ‘cynical’, though goodness knows there have been quite a few posts that fall into those categories and I resent you passing judgment on mine. This silliness has gone on so long in town that I now find it laughable, and my post was a tongue-in-cheek response to a lighthearted viewpoint. Sometimes humor can diffuse a situation, and people can cope with difficulties more easily. Lighten up, for heaven’s sakes. Have you forgotten how to laugh?
August 27th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
I’m just some schmuck on the blog; passing out a lighthearted comment of my own. Ignore it! or sensitive are you?
August 27th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
LJ, You express an opinion that all these councilors and board members are insensitive, or arrogant, or something else. I know that not to be true at all. They are earnest, hard working public minded people for the most part. So I see your comments as cynical, sarcastic at least. But that’s just this schmuck.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
You know, doing this job for free and, really, truly having the best interests of everyone at heart shouldn’t be a catch-all excuse for doing the job badly. Nor do those automatically make you good at the job.
These guys, with this termination, were clearly completely out of their depth…..they didn’t turn to anyone or at least to the right people for help. Why? who knows…expense, arrogance, ignorance. Bottomline, whatever, they have now made a bad situation/decision worse, thru a repeat of the same behavior.
Now, potentially, unless they change their ways, we’re going to end up paying Grossman more money. In a town that is really on a respirator financially due primarily to Grossman’s management……..
Who sees something wrong with this picture? It isn’t a cynical reaction, its a sensible reaction to be horrified at this mess….We need some people here who are willing to admit that things are a mess and they need some help!!!! Before it gets worse >>>> even with the best of intentions on their part.
I mean, geez, I would really and truly love to pilot an F-47…and I’d do it for free! Can I try?
August 27th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
I believe they relied on their attorney to get it right, and maybe he didn’t. But maybe he did and Grossman’s stuff is all bluster.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Show me where I said that ‘all these councilors and board members are insensitive, arrogant or something else.’ I said nothing of the sort. The fact that they are earnest, hard-working, blah, blah, blah, matters not IF they continually make decisions that are not sound for the town. None of us have jobs that give brownie points for being earnest or hard-working IF the results don’t have the desired effect. “Well, the CEO of the XYZ company managed to get the company several hundred thousand dollars in debt, but, boy, did he work hard at it.” Not so much. I don’t think you are a schmuck, HOWEVER, even if I did I wouldn’t say it, nor would I pass judgment on you or anybody else for stating their opinion. I might disagree with your opinions, but I don’t label.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
At this point, they should stop taking chances that Grossman’s stuff is all bluster. They need to stop talking, stop sniping at each other, present a united front — the decision and the mistakes have been made, the dye is cast — hire a competent attorney and END THIS.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
LJ,
Seems to me if you don’t care or dismiss my comments, you would not be so worked up. I seem have struck a nerve.
This is citizen government. No one hires CEOs for this …. except of course a Town Manager, who is supposed to to be a professional. Your analogy misses the point.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
You are absolutely right, Sharon. I am completely wrong and will not ever disagree with you again.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Sharon,
I think you’re missing the point. No matter how well intentioned the group is, if they aren’t competent in this position, they do more harm than good……..it doesn’t matter how hard they work or are willing to work…
if they don’t know what they are doing, they get in trouble…….and that’s what seems to have happened here.
No one may have intended to get into this mess, but they are there now, we are there with them. The point is to admit you are over your head, get help and MOVE ON> without financially crippling the town further…..
August 27th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
By the way, I’ve said your comments are cynical or sarcastic. They are!! I haven’t said you are cynical. This schmuck hasn’t labeled you.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
And no you didn’t strike a nerve. I asked you to back up the comment you made about me. You did not. You addressed yourself to me, I had the decency to respond and not ignore. It is called manners. But I certainly will remember to dismiss what you say in the future.
August 27th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Well at least there’s that sarcasm………………
August 28th, 2008 at 8:51 am
i guess we’re supposed to be happy about all this. We’re supposed to keep shrugging it off because they are public minded people. we’re not to question any of this. Just put on a happy face, otherwise you are cynical and sarcastic. We should just sit back and hope that Mr Grossman is bluffing. We should just sit back and watch as the council continues to trip all over themselves at our expense. 102K plus legal fees already with the potential for much more is hardly a bluster. i realize a few members of our council think this is a “bluster” but i for one have seen enough. Call me cynical, call me sarcastic, just don’t forget to call me fed up.
August 28th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Me too. As soon as my kid graduates, i’m firesaling the house and getting out of here. this is ridiculous. These people are going to bankrupt the town if they continue on in this fashion for another three or four years. Anyone bother yet — i know this is quibbling — to develop any estimates whatsoever on what the carrying costs are going to be this winter for our favorite white elephant, the church?
August 28th, 2008 at 10:17 am
oh our future million dollar library that came complete without windows! brilliant.
August 28th, 2008 at 10:24 am
yes, whose brother-in-law has been chosen to do the architectural renderings? And whose sister-in-law has been designated to sell us the heating oil for it for the winter? If they delay the purchase long enough, oil may be back over 140, so we can pay top dollar like we want to….
August 28th, 2008 at 10:59 am
we had to jump right on that as if we had the money.
August 28th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Lady Jane, I enjoy your posts!
August 28th, 2008 at 11:38 am
My understanding is that “even though it was a bad deal, there was a group of people who really wanted it”……. some rationalization. Also there seems to be this theory going around that it “didn’t really cost anything cause money had been set aside”.
The money management skills here are beyond appalling.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
wow!!!!!!
August 28th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
you never heard that? every time i’ve talked to anyone in town about it, those are the town rationalizations offered.
August 28th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Man, you guys just gush cynicism. Those are real uplifting posts. And your ideas for a better town are…?
August 29th, 2008 at 6:15 am
I’m one of the rednecks who have lived in this town pretty much all my life.
What is wrong with a little cynicism? I think it’s pretty judgemental to keep calling people cynical. Isn’t what this forum is for? “rants and raves” as well as suggestions?
Opinions are just that. I think some people just want to express themselves and may not feel comfortable speaking at a town meeting.
From what I’ve seen in my time living in this town, there are some things to be cynical about. I don’t read this blog for news or research. I read it because it’s entertaining and a way to see how my fellow citizens are thinking and feeling. Plenty of people say things I don’t really care for, but to be so critical of someone else’s posts because they don’t offer a solution to the towns problems is pretty harsh IMO. I’m just say’n……….
August 29th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Thank you MM. Sharon, I am not going to solve the towns problems here, nor will I try. I don’t have to explain myself to you, however I am at the town meetings and I am at the school board meetings, I speak up and I put my time in. I’ve posted positive thoughts and I’ve posted not so positive thoughts. It just so happens that on this subject, I don’t really have a good thing to say. Stop crying about the cynics. It’s old.
August 29th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Calling everyone cynical is simply an effort to dismiss the entire situation and disregard the fact that we’ve got a group of people in charge who have demonstrated very clearly that they are in way over their heads.
Look, they paid an inflated price for a piece of property that there is nothing more than a whisp of a plan for…..no estimates have been done on the rehab, renovations or even carrying costs. And the town couldn’t/can’t afford any of it. Cost? Well, for starters, the 800K purchase price……to actually make any use of it? Who knows…..
They completely screwed up the termination of the Town Manager. The town has already paid over 100K in termination costs and could be on the line for at least 200K more.
Come on. At some point, facing reality can not be dismissed as cynicism. Its called being a grown up, cutting your losses and dealing head on with a situation.
If we don’t, then the entire town is going to suffer….you think that this year’s tax increase was something? They keep going the way they are going, just wait till next year. Gonna knock your socks off…..
August 29th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Feel beter?
August 29th, 2008 at 10:55 am
i feel great knowing that Anonymous, Ladyjane and MM make sense anyway.
August 29th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Thanks. There are a number of people in town and on this board that feel the same. However, making sense and making change are two different things, especially when you disagree with the most popular opinions!
August 30th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
I can’t believe anyone would defend that town manager sleeze bag. Who does he think he is? People do get fired from jobs everyday because companies are not happy with performance. If they are lucky they get a severance package but it is never 102,000!!!!
He is a public servant and he is supposed to be serving the town…he works for us and he was doing a poor job. Our finances were so messed up and he could not get along with people. His management approach of my way or the highway is not going to work in this town. People are educated here.
If he was any kind of a professional, he would have quietly walked away and felt fortunate to get $102,000. The fact that he is going for unemployment is deplorable. He is unprofessional and we should be glad to be rid of him. He is the one that is causing all the publicity here with all his interviews with the paper….not the town.
Also, the fact that he told the paper that he went to Foxwoods after getting fired says it all…..
August 31st, 2008 at 3:08 pm
thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!
MM,BSS,AND EVEN YOU LADYJANE for saying we have a right to an opinion and standing up to the tyrant of the diner “SHARON”.
enough is enough with you sharon always jumping down peoples throats when you disagree with their opinions.
a little taste of your own medicine FINALLY!!!!!! HOW WAS IT?
September 2nd, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Bean bag? got anything importent to talk about?