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	<title>Comments on: Recap of November 10, 2008 Town Council Meeting</title>
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	<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/</link>
	<description>Life in South Berwick, Maine</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4641</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 03:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4641</guid>
		<description>Rhiannon
Some ways your right some ways your wrong 

I you had some of the large producers in town bring there garbage else where and some of the people who could afford it  get dumpsters it would lower the transfer staion cost in some ways

less trash= less fuel to hall the waste and less tipping to merc to except the waste= savings.  

It also = less waiting for me on a Sunday morning!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rhiannon<br />
Some ways your right some ways your wrong </p>
<p>I you had some of the large producers in town bring there garbage else where and some of the people who could afford it  get dumpsters it would lower the transfer staion cost in some ways</p>
<p>less trash= less fuel to hall the waste and less tipping to merc to except the waste= savings.  </p>
<p>It also = less waiting for me on a Sunday morning!</p>
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		<title>By: Rhiannon</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4640</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhiannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4640</guid>
		<description>True, taxes do work that way, but it&#039;s not always that way - and I&#039;m sure the town will have a reason to increase taxes again to make up for the difference - like increased salaries for all their workers, that&#039;s a fact of life and if the town doesn&#039;t increase it&#039;s revenue either the workers don&#039;t get a pay increase or they cut some other service, or taxes go up - there&#039;s only so many ways to squish that balloon.

If there are people who can afford private trash hauling and people who can&#039;t, how is that &quot;equitable&quot;?  If the town cannot tax trash hauled by someone like Waste Management, then those folks aren&#039;t paying into the town at all for their trash that would be under PAYT  - and that would probably be those folks who produce the large amounts.  So those that produce the most trash probably will take their trash elsewhere (if they don&#039;t already) - so their taxes have been lowered and they are not paying that money back in at the transfer station.  And the money &amp; trash are probably going out of state, not just out of town.

The other wastes you mention all have some type of &quot;hazardous&quot; label attached (i.e. freon in the refridgerators, mercury in the florescent lights, waste oil and coolant, etc) so the town would be in violation of state &amp; federal law if it didn&#039;t control that - and they are using those funds to pay fees to the the state and federal govt to handle and dispose of it.  So no, I would not imagine there&#039;d be much complaint over that - either pay for the hazardous waste you bring in or you pay higher taxes in fines to the state &amp; federal government?  

This is not &quot;lower tax bills and higher services&quot; this is the same service - just being taxed for differently.  And the &quot;large producers&quot; will find a way to avoid paying the PAYT and all the smaller households will be left, literally, holding the bag.  

If PAYT will not raise more money that transfer station expenses, then it is simply a shifting of taxation - and again, the larger producers will either pay the higher amounts and, assuming that they are businesses, will raise their prices, thus passing that higher cost onto whoever uses their services or purchases their products - or they will just have their trash hauled outside of the town, paying the town nothing for that service at all but getting their tax bills reduced like everyone else.

I realize that there are more people for this initiative so my few comments here will not ripple that ocean of acceptance.  I do hope that in the long run, this is a good move for the town and it will save money or at least &quot;break even&quot; and my gloomy thoughts will not come to pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, taxes do work that way, but it&#8217;s not always that way &#8211; and I&#8217;m sure the town will have a reason to increase taxes again to make up for the difference &#8211; like increased salaries for all their workers, that&#8217;s a fact of life and if the town doesn&#8217;t increase it&#8217;s revenue either the workers don&#8217;t get a pay increase or they cut some other service, or taxes go up &#8211; there&#8217;s only so many ways to squish that balloon.</p>
<p>If there are people who can afford private trash hauling and people who can&#8217;t, how is that &#8220;equitable&#8221;?  If the town cannot tax trash hauled by someone like Waste Management, then those folks aren&#8217;t paying into the town at all for their trash that would be under PAYT  &#8211; and that would probably be those folks who produce the large amounts.  So those that produce the most trash probably will take their trash elsewhere (if they don&#8217;t already) &#8211; so their taxes have been lowered and they are not paying that money back in at the transfer station.  And the money &amp; trash are probably going out of state, not just out of town.</p>
<p>The other wastes you mention all have some type of &#8220;hazardous&#8221; label attached (i.e. freon in the refridgerators, mercury in the florescent lights, waste oil and coolant, etc) so the town would be in violation of state &amp; federal law if it didn&#8217;t control that &#8211; and they are using those funds to pay fees to the the state and federal govt to handle and dispose of it.  So no, I would not imagine there&#8217;d be much complaint over that &#8211; either pay for the hazardous waste you bring in or you pay higher taxes in fines to the state &amp; federal government?  </p>
<p>This is not &#8220;lower tax bills and higher services&#8221; this is the same service &#8211; just being taxed for differently.  And the &#8220;large producers&#8221; will find a way to avoid paying the PAYT and all the smaller households will be left, literally, holding the bag.  </p>
<p>If PAYT will not raise more money that transfer station expenses, then it is simply a shifting of taxation &#8211; and again, the larger producers will either pay the higher amounts and, assuming that they are businesses, will raise their prices, thus passing that higher cost onto whoever uses their services or purchases their products &#8211; or they will just have their trash hauled outside of the town, paying the town nothing for that service at all but getting their tax bills reduced like everyone else.</p>
<p>I realize that there are more people for this initiative so my few comments here will not ripple that ocean of acceptance.  I do hope that in the long run, this is a good move for the town and it will save money or at least &#8220;break even&#8221; and my gloomy thoughts will not come to pass.</p>
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		<title>By: debating</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4632</link>
		<dc:creator>debating</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 14:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4632</guid>
		<description>Rhiannon, your trash disposal is not free. It is part of your tax bill. If you are good at recycling, you are likely tax subsidizing those who are not or choose not to. This year, the council reduced the municipal tax rate by 17 cents over what it would have been, had they not instituted PAYT for six months. It would have been a 34 cent reduction had they done it for the full year. The solid waste committee spent over a year looking at PAYT and reported back that it was equitable. People pay for what they throw away. it is not double taxation if that money offsets the transfer station expense amounts. If PAYT raised more money than the transfer station expenses, then it would be double taxation. People producing large amounts of trash have the option of contracting with a private hauler. They can still bring their recyclables to the transfer station at no cost. The town continues to have to accept the other wastes such as computers, refridgerators (white goods), florescent lights, construction debris, waste oil and coolant, etc.  The town has charged for these items and will continue to do so - already a PAYT system. No one has complained that was not equitable.                     Every service provided by the town, county and school district has a cost. This cost is your tax bill. We will not have lower tax bills and higher services- especially as fixed costs increase for all of us.  That is also basic math.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rhiannon, your trash disposal is not free. It is part of your tax bill. If you are good at recycling, you are likely tax subsidizing those who are not or choose not to. This year, the council reduced the municipal tax rate by 17 cents over what it would have been, had they not instituted PAYT for six months. It would have been a 34 cent reduction had they done it for the full year. The solid waste committee spent over a year looking at PAYT and reported back that it was equitable. People pay for what they throw away. it is not double taxation if that money offsets the transfer station expense amounts. If PAYT raised more money than the transfer station expenses, then it would be double taxation. People producing large amounts of trash have the option of contracting with a private hauler. They can still bring their recyclables to the transfer station at no cost. The town continues to have to accept the other wastes such as computers, refridgerators (white goods), florescent lights, construction debris, waste oil and coolant, etc.  The town has charged for these items and will continue to do so &#8211; already a PAYT system. No one has complained that was not equitable.                     Every service provided by the town, county and school district has a cost. This cost is your tax bill. We will not have lower tax bills and higher services- especially as fixed costs increase for all of us.  That is also basic math.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhiannon</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4624</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhiannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4624</guid>
		<description>No matter how big the family/household is, &quot;cheaper&quot; is still more costly than &quot;free&quot;.  At least that&#039;s what I&#039;ve been taught in every math class I&#039;ve ever had...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No matter how big the family/household is, &#8220;cheaper&#8221; is still more costly than &#8220;free&#8221;.  At least that&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve been taught in every math class I&#8217;ve ever had&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4619</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 05:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4619</guid>
		<description>Depending on how big your family/household is, it may be cheaper for you to contract with a waste hauler than to pay for bags.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depending on how big your family/household is, it may be cheaper for you to contract with a waste hauler than to pay for bags.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhiannon</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4617</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhiannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 00:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4617</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Taxpayer, that makes more sense now.  

But it still kind of makes me wonder how much the Town thinks this will help them financially.  And I do have some concern that they are rolling this out at a time where people are struggling to make ends meet and heat their homes and put food on the table.  Those are the people who can&#039;t afford someone like Waste Management or possibly any other contract service and now they will have to pay for their trash at the transfer station.  Granted, raising property taxes wouldn&#039;t help those people either, but this just seems like a bit of a slap in the face on top of the already troubled economy.  Just my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Taxpayer, that makes more sense now.  </p>
<p>But it still kind of makes me wonder how much the Town thinks this will help them financially.  And I do have some concern that they are rolling this out at a time where people are struggling to make ends meet and heat their homes and put food on the table.  Those are the people who can&#8217;t afford someone like Waste Management or possibly any other contract service and now they will have to pay for their trash at the transfer station.  Granted, raising property taxes wouldn&#8217;t help those people either, but this just seems like a bit of a slap in the face on top of the already troubled economy.  Just my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4615</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4615</guid>
		<description>Rhiannon,

Taking from previous posts:

The Town can regulate those who uses the town’s Transfer Station, and those that use the Town&#039;s contract with MERC bringing waste from S. Berwick. It can’t impose regulations on waste that is managed outside that system, and at other facilities, such as through Waste Management.  If waste goes to other facilities that have no contractual relationship with the Town; that’s “free trade”. Otherwise it’s called “flow control”, and it’ not legal.


Article II  of the Ordinance - Flow control :  Originally adopted in 1987. These provisions were in place to support the Town’s commitment AT THAT TIME to MERC. Subsequently almost 20 years ago, these types of “Flow Control” provisions were found unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court. They remain illegal.

In any event, even without amendment, the existing ARTICAL II is not attempted to be applied in Town. Waste Management, and maybe others, have been servicing my home for many years, taking the material to their landfill in Rochester, NH (quite legally).

The logic is: if the waste is not being managed by the Town, through Town contracts, the Town has no involvement, financial or otherwise. It’s as though the waste does not exist from the Town’s perspective.

People are free to contract with a service, as an individual with free market opportunities, that does not use Town facilities or contracts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rhiannon,</p>
<p>Taking from previous posts:</p>
<p>The Town can regulate those who uses the town’s Transfer Station, and those that use the Town&#8217;s contract with MERC bringing waste from S. Berwick. It can’t impose regulations on waste that is managed outside that system, and at other facilities, such as through Waste Management.  If waste goes to other facilities that have no contractual relationship with the Town; that’s “free trade”. Otherwise it’s called “flow control”, and it’ not legal.</p>
<p>Article II  of the Ordinance &#8211; Flow control :  Originally adopted in 1987. These provisions were in place to support the Town’s commitment AT THAT TIME to MERC. Subsequently almost 20 years ago, these types of “Flow Control” provisions were found unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court. They remain illegal.</p>
<p>In any event, even without amendment, the existing ARTICAL II is not attempted to be applied in Town. Waste Management, and maybe others, have been servicing my home for many years, taking the material to their landfill in Rochester, NH (quite legally).</p>
<p>The logic is: if the waste is not being managed by the Town, through Town contracts, the Town has no involvement, financial or otherwise. It’s as though the waste does not exist from the Town’s perspective.</p>
<p>People are free to contract with a service, as an individual with free market opportunities, that does not use Town facilities or contracts.</p>
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		<title>By: Rhiannon</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4613</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhiannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4613</guid>
		<description>Taxpayer, I&#039;m still confused - if the town doesn&#039;t care if someone hauls the trash somewhere else then why do all the contractors need to sign up for permits and according to what I&#039;m reading once they do that, they have to take it to MERC.  So again, how do they enforce that?  If they don&#039;t care, then fine, everyone in town can pay a contractor to haul their trash somewhere else and then what&#039;s the point of PAYT?  It sounds to me that the town does not want trash to be  a &quot;commodity&quot; but Town &quot;property&quot;.

Bill, contractors have to pay &quot;tippng&quot; fees no matter where they take it so there are systems in place to dispose of trash &quot;legally&quot;.   As for environmental concerns - well, drive the roads leading to the dump and see how much trash falls off people&#039;s cars.  Should the town be concerned to pick that up?  Most places have fines for littering, but even those are hardly enforced.  

I don&#039;t believe the motivation here is concern over trash being disposed of properly or legally or environmentally friendly.  Most people have done the whole &quot;recycling&quot; thing already since it&#039;s mandatory.   PAYT is simply a way for the town to &quot;reduce&quot; our property taxes by &quot;taxing&quot; our trash!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taxpayer, I&#8217;m still confused &#8211; if the town doesn&#8217;t care if someone hauls the trash somewhere else then why do all the contractors need to sign up for permits and according to what I&#8217;m reading once they do that, they have to take it to MERC.  So again, how do they enforce that?  If they don&#8217;t care, then fine, everyone in town can pay a contractor to haul their trash somewhere else and then what&#8217;s the point of PAYT?  It sounds to me that the town does not want trash to be  a &#8220;commodity&#8221; but Town &#8220;property&#8221;.</p>
<p>Bill, contractors have to pay &#8220;tippng&#8221; fees no matter where they take it so there are systems in place to dispose of trash &#8220;legally&#8221;.   As for environmental concerns &#8211; well, drive the roads leading to the dump and see how much trash falls off people&#8217;s cars.  Should the town be concerned to pick that up?  Most places have fines for littering, but even those are hardly enforced.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe the motivation here is concern over trash being disposed of properly or legally or environmentally friendly.  Most people have done the whole &#8220;recycling&#8221; thing already since it&#8217;s mandatory.   PAYT is simply a way for the town to &#8220;reduce&#8221; our property taxes by &#8220;taxing&#8221; our trash!</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4611</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 03:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4611</guid>
		<description>Trash is legally a &quot;commodity&quot;,  it&#039;s a free market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trash is legally a &#8220;commodity&#8221;,  it&#8217;s a free market.</p>
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		<title>By: Taxpayer</title>
		<link>http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/comment-page-2/#comment-4610</link>
		<dc:creator>Taxpayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 03:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the236diner.com/2008/11/10/recap-of-november-2008-town-council-meeting/#comment-4610</guid>
		<description>Not in the private market. It&#039;s a free market.  If trash is managed through the Town system, yes.  If not,  it&#039;s not the Town&#039;s business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not in the private market. It&#8217;s a free market.  If trash is managed through the Town system, yes.  If not,  it&#8217;s not the Town&#8217;s business.</p>
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